Hair therapy with Kate Ep#76

[00:00:00] I'm getting the shiny yarmulke at this point I don't know if you can see that So what would you say What can I do at this point Now to go through and bring my hair back Have you tried Prayer? Who? A prayer? Yeah

[00:00:47] Hello and welcome back to another episode of Shit I Told My Hairdresser We got a lot of shit to talk about today How you doing Jack? I'm okay, how's it going? Doing good, doing good We have a guest with us today We have Katie You have a podcast as well too And why don't you tell us a little bit about your podcast Katie? Thank you So my podcast is called Hair Therapy

[00:01:15] And we focus more on kind of hair loss And hair and scalp conditions I have real life stories And kind of industry professionals And different guests on So I feel like I'm maybe not quite as fun as you guys There's a lot of information on there But I wouldn't say less enjoyable Just maybe a little bit more serious Well I've heard some of the episodes as well too And you do get into the other stuff as well You know about our profession

[00:01:45] And things like that We just kind of sort of like Talk shit about our profession a little bit more You know and have a little bit of fun with it You've been doing it the same amount of time as we have You know so we've kind of seen the ups and downs And the ebbs and flows of the hair industry And we still haven't had fun about it But at the exact same time A lot of what you talk about Falls in the category that we're interested in And it's people's hair and their scalp And that's one of the issues that you know It's hard to talk about with certain people

[00:02:15] Like how do you tell someone Like you don't have a lot of hair You know mainly because my clients That come in sometimes they have Like they'll show me a picture of something Of a certain haircut that they want And I'm like oh girl You got like three hairs on your head And two in your pocket That's not in the cards But how do you talk about Like how to take care of your scalp And actually be cool about it Without I don't know I guess that'd be more of your field Well I think that's one of the reasons Why I kind of got into trichology

[00:02:44] In the first place Because what I find is A lot of hairdressers Who get into that field They've normally been hairdressing For quite a while Like at least eight or ten years And they kind of get to that point Where they've seen clients with hair loss They've seen clients that maybe Are faced with chemotherapy treatment They've seen clients That've got really bad psoriasis And they don't have many answers They don't really know what to advise Or sometimes even how to approach it And that's the point where

[00:03:14] For some people They start to get a little bit more interested In the hair and scalp side Because as we all know When you're doing your training You get so little knowledge Given to you on hair and scalp And hair loss Like throughout your training Compared to how much you would learn About maybe colour or cutting Or things like that And we work with the hair and scalp Every day I mean even myself Until I did Two and a half years training In trichology

[00:03:44] I didn't know how little I knew And I'm not suggesting everyone Go down that rabbit hole It's not for everyone That's why trichologists exist Right But that is why I also have Now I now do a one day course On kind of hair and scalp science And hair loss and stuff In the hope that people can have A little bit more knowledge And understanding But also to help Kind of approach That in the right way as well Because we can talk to our clients

[00:04:13] About these things And they can be open to it Even if we don't have all the answers But there's a good way And a bad way To go about it And I've witnessed both I've been told Some of the patients That I see with hair loss The way that they found out About their hair loss Was actually the most traumatic Thing that's ever happened to them And a lot of time That was in a salon Right So someone just looked at them And said Bitch you're going bald And Or you know They're in the shampoo basin

[00:04:43] And the assistant's Washing their hair And they're going Oh my god There's so much hair Why is there so much hair Coming out You know Or oh did you know You've got this bald patch On the back of your head And they're like What Wow You know So They're definitely Subtle Yeah Well exactly We try and help people To be a little bit more confident But also a little bit Empathetic And understanding Around it And maybe You know Also Some people don't want

[00:05:12] To necessarily face it Or have a big conversation About it And that's actually okay Too That's most of them I think You know The guys They don't like hearing it The girls are more They know about it And They want to ask about it And We don't know How to tell them Like it's hormones Or Whatever it is Or Maybe just age So It's hard to talk about Yeah You might That brings up A really good point though You know what I mean Because a lot of the times I have people Who have gone through

[00:05:42] Some very stressful situations They had a client Whose husband died Just all of a sudden And then I was like Maybe you should go get A full blood panel And kind of see What you might be missing Yeah You know And that actually worked It helped You know what I mean But it's like I only know to say that Because my wife's Gone through that Well apart from You didn't die obviously But other than that That Exactly You know But it's just like What would you say Are like Some of the key things On what you can say To somebody And then what

[00:06:11] Well I'll follow up With that after After that Okay I think one of the key things And one of the things I think is really important And even I notice it Like I was teaching A hairdressing course today And I had three students on And I said Oh I'm also a trichologist And they said What's that So one of the key things Is you as a hairdresser It is not your job To diagnose conditions It is not your job To give medical advice It is not your job To have all the answers One of the most Really useful things You can do

[00:06:40] Is build relationships With people In complementary sectors That you can help To refer people on to And that's really Really useful So maybe a nutritionist You know Maybe a hypnotherapist Or some kind of therapist That you can talk to Maybe a functional medicine doctor Or even if you know someone You can even do blood tests online You can order them yourself And you can get them done And you might even know

[00:07:08] Like a hormone specialist Or someone who deals with Holistic therapy Or a trichologist Even a dermatologist People have respect for you They've got a relationship with you They will trust what you say So there's a huge difference With someone saying I think I'm losing my hair And you saying Oh I don't know Anything about that Sorry Or you saying I don't know anything About that Sorry But I know an amazing Trichologist That I can refer you to Right You've not done

[00:07:38] Anything different You haven't given them Any help But you're still seen As a knowledgeable expert And they can go And get help somewhere So stress in itself I mean bereavement Can in itself Cause many different Types of hair loss High cortisol levels Cortisol causes inflammation Inflammation Swirls the hair follicles Restricts the hair growth It's not It's not good for you You know Being in Kind of fight Flight Or freeze Permanently Right Or for long points

[00:08:07] Of your day Is very bad For your whole Nervous system It's very bad For your body When your body's Not functioning properly And you're not Relaxed And you're not happy Nothing's gonna work properly Okay So even just Those elements In themselves I mean again That's why people Come to a hairdresser For a nice Relaxing experience You can give them A nice head massage Maybe a nice latte Or a smoothie Or glass of wine Depending on your What your salon's like They're still

[00:08:37] They can talk to you We all know That we are Unofficial therapists Yep For all our clients So there are many Things you can You can do Even products You can recommend But yes You can talk about Blood tests Yes you can talk About nutrition You can talk about Even just general Things like getting More steps Drinking more water Is really important You know Which I love Giving that tip Because it's such An easy thing To put in place And people forget And all these

[00:09:07] Main points That anyway Would make you Feel slightly better And improve You know Your general health Overall They often get Overlooked As how useful And beneficial They are And people go Oh just What I eat Affect my hair Then And you're like Well yeah Having McDonald's Every freaking day That's why You know You are the factory For producing this stuff So you're responsible For you know Whatever the resources That you have Is what you're putting Into your body

[00:09:36] So yes It has an impact On your hair Yeah So what you put in Comes out Yeah You know I remember I had a Chemist who Worked at A manufacturing Company that Did hair care And he was saying Like he's like What's your hair Protein Protein in Protein out You know And I was like Okay you're right You know So it is It's like Whatever you put in But all the other Things you're talking About Inflammation And all that Kind of stuff I think I'm having a fight Myself I think my hair My hair on my head And they're having a fight

[00:10:06] And they're all Moving away from each other Someone got knocked out So I'm getting The shiny yamaka Now They've You know They've moved out Yeah They're fleeing Another neighborhood So when it comes to guys I mean like myself I mean the main reason Was very selfish To have you on So fuck everything You just said All right Yeah let's focus on you Yeah fine Enough about you Let's talk about me No but it's like With guys With women It is

[00:10:35] It's really hard To talk about Female pattern baldness Because that's definitely Something they definitely Do not want to talk about They're like I'm a female I cannot lose my hair And it's like Yes you can But with guys As well though too I've had guys Where you start To kind of point things out And I've made That mistake before Where I was like Hey You might want to go through And like you know Wear a hat Wear a hat Exactly See a dermatologist Or something Like what would be Like a subtle way Of telling someone

[00:11:04] Hey you're going In Jason's route To get the shiny Yamaha To kind of avoid that Is there a way To avoid it Is there Is there other things That we could do Like myself Like should I be On the Rogaine path Or Because I don't want To lose it all Once you get to the point Where the skin is smooth That's normally The point of No return Like once the hair follicles Are Shut down And gone We cannot Resurrect the dead So There's an actual

[00:11:33] Physical point Where the hair follicle Has shrunk Too small For it to be able To kind of Regenerate And get bigger Now So if you're a cue ball You're screwed Yeah Basically Okay But however I'd like to point out That that is male Pattern baldness only So for female Pattern hair loss Women will never Go bald From genetic hair loss Oh You might go very Very thin on top But the process Doesn't go as far As it does with men So you will never

[00:12:03] Have like a bald head Whereas with men You will So it's never Quite that bad But obviously If it's quite A lot You know If you're losing Quite a lot of hair And it progresses Quite rapidly You can be that Little old lady In the supermarket With about Four hairs left Kind of That you're combing over But basically It's like a halo I'm getting the halo Yeah It is genetics We cannot cure genetics We cannot fix Genetic hair loss However

[00:12:33] We can manage it And we can slow down The progress And there's actually Been a study On two male twins Who have genetic hair loss So with two male Identical twins As far as I'm aware I'm not a scientist Their DNA is the same Yep I'm identical So I know Yes Yeah So they're genetically Predisposed That they're both Going to get male Pattern hair loss They put one

[00:13:02] Of the twins On a really Really healthy Diet And concentrated On him Having a really Healthy lifestyle And the other one They gave him A really poor diet With lots of sugar And processed foods And different things And the one With the really Really poor diet His hair loss Progressed Far quicker Far more So although They probably Would end up At the same point Eventually There's a lot One got there faster With diabetes Yeah Like here's diabetes Here's bad shitty hair

[00:13:32] Have a great day I mean I know Which one I'd pick If I had to choose So you know But it goes to show That we can't stop it But we can influence it And by using The right products And treatment And sometimes That does involve Things like Rogaine Or Propecia You can slow down The process And you can manage it So that you're Kind of holding back The tide As it were Obviously a lot Of the treatments Only work If you're consistent And you're willing

[00:14:02] To do them Which is the same As diet and exercise However there are Things you can do But the one thing That is probably That people say to me They wish they'd known Is to start earlier So time is follicles Is the phrase And basically The more hair You've got And the thicker it is The more you can retain And the more you can keep So the longer you leave it And the thinner you go The less we're able To kind of restore

[00:14:32] Without kind of surgery And stuff So Oh well I'm screwed So is it All right Yeah However There are some amazing You know If you see hair transplants These days They are Very very good I'll have Jack transplant Some of his onto me But you better start now Jack Because I know Who's on my No But again It's only really Even if your mum Or your dad Has got genetic hair loss That doesn't necessarily Mean you're going To lose your hair Right

[00:15:01] Because you never know Which genes You're going to get But if You know that It's in your family Even if it's your uncle Or your grandfather Or something And you can see That there's people In your family Where the hair's Gone really thin Or it's started To disappear It's just worth Monitoring it And keeping an eye On it And obviously As a trichologist We have like The dermatoscopes So we have The really good Microscopes That we can actually Look onto your scalp Look at your hair follicles See Are they Different

[00:15:30] Thicknesses Are they You know Have you got Some signs of Miniaturization Going on Is there anything To worry about And then If you can see That those changes Are starting to happen That's the time To consider What you might Want to do about it If anything You know Okay Yeah So It would actually Be beneficial For us As hairdressers To go through And find Someone like You To refer to Because I don't know If I want To go through And do All those things But you do Do a course Right Yeah And so You teach

[00:16:00] Other hairdressers Is it Just hairdressers Or is there Normal people That you teach About this stuff Or Normal people You know Well I mean Come on We We're not We're not We're not Fuck no However No I based So my one day Course is all Around hair Conditions And hair and Scalp issues That you might Come across In your job As a hairdresser That you can Then start to Recognize And be more Confident in

[00:16:29] Advising people And talking to Them So it's Based around Hairdressers People that Maybe do Hair systems Barbers Anyone in The kind of Hair loss Industry In that way Or even Maybe beauty Therapists It's not really For people That Because we Already know Hair Right We've dealt With it We know And when I Start showing The conditions And the pictures The students Normally go Oh yeah I've seen That I've seen That I am In the Process Of making

[00:16:59] A two Hour Menopause Online webinar Which will Be open To everyone And I've Also just Been invited As a speaker In the summer For a thing Here in the UK called The Kent Health and Wellness Festival So I'll be Doing an Hour talk For everybody And that Will be Quite general So we will Talk about Things like Hormones Stress levels Exercise Levels Nutrition And just Things that People So You know Normal people

[00:17:29] Can do And they Can understand Around hair That like We said Earlier Perhaps Hadn't Thought about Like even The point Of learning How to Really cleanse Your scalp Properly When you're Shampooing So that Your hair Follicles Aren't Obstructed You know And you Don't get Build up That is a Thing right There I'm so glad You mentioned Something about That because Everyone always Goes to Glamour Magazine Or some YouTube Bullshit And they go To YouTube University to Learn about Their hair And how to Shampoo And they're Like oh I only shampoo

[00:17:59] My hair Once a week And I'm Like no No no no no No So can you Debunk that For us Right now How often Should you Be shampooing Your scalp Not your hair But your scalp Because that's What you need To shampoo Right Am I wrong About that No no no no no Absolutely correct So when You're cleansing You are Cleansing The scalp More Than the Hair When you Run And wash The shampoo Through the Hair It will Naturally Kind of Remove And wash Through that But we Certainly Don't need

[00:18:27] to be shampooing the hair we can focus on the scalp with conditioner again i've known some grown adults 40 50 year old adults that get their conditioner and go like that so we need to remember that when we condition really we want to focus on the older hair that's seen some things with the cleansing we want to be cleansing the scalp so we have to remember that our scalp is

[00:18:54] skin too yes so i mean there are people out there there are people out there that only cleanse their face once a week i'm sure or even their body however again that's not what we would recommend so not everybody needs to wash their hair every single day and that's fine for you guys that do probably don't color your hair you're not really styling your hair not really doing much to it

[00:19:21] and it's quite short if you wanted to wash your hair every single day there's nothing wrong with that at all you just need to focus on the product so for most people if they're shampooing their hair we would normally say a good guide is every two to three days okay so some people it will be more some people less if you've got really fine hair like me i need to wash it quite regularly because it gets gritty very quickly if someone's got very very thick if someone's got very very thick hair

[00:19:50] they might find twice a week is fine for them but again we get back to that issue if you're using dry shampoo two three times a week or maybe even more you're clogging all your hair follicles you're making your scalp dirty it's not really healthy your scalp needs to be clean and it needs to be able to breathe and a lot of people say oh you shouldn't wash your hair every day you wash away all the

[00:20:14] natural oils and it's not good for it well then choose a gentle shampoo that is made to respect the scalp's natural microbiome and you won't have an issue but like i say not everybody needs to wash it every day but if you do and you're happy to do that and that's your routine if you're using a gentle shampoo and you're kind of looking after it and you're not you know straightening it to death every day then you're not going to have any issues so it's really it's personal preference

[00:20:43] yeah but definitely more than once a week if you can exactly you know i mean but your butt every day and sometimes twice all right jack twice on sunday oh see i'm right there you go wash your butt i mean that's not that's you know we don't cover that in dracology so that's oh sorry jack all right so i've always heard um her like male pattern baldness if your mother's father

[00:21:11] had it likely you will have it is that something that's right or so you know about genetics i guess like that you know why are you still worried jack i'm asking for you asking for a friend tell me to ask her that so that's what okay thanks for taking notes so i don't really know how that particular kind of old wives tale came about because i don't know how they could possibly i

[00:21:39] don't know if they chose a million people and measured their family tree and worked out that it was all their mums um but genetics is genetics so when you actually start to study genetics and you look at it is like a family tree isn't it you look at well the mum's got blue eyes the dad's got blue eyes which is the dominant gene which one's most likely going to affect you so it's like for some reason

[00:22:03] my step-mom was really surprised that my daughter's got blue eyes but both me and her dad have got blue eyes so there's actually 98 chance that she will have blue eyes so it's not really that surprising with genetic hair laws you may find that both your parents have it in their family somewhere so it you can't really say oh it's from the father's side or the mum's side or the mum's brother's uncles

[00:22:29] whatever um if you know that it's in your family somewhere then it is possible that that may be passed down to you but it's really kind of luck of the the draw i don't think you can specifically target any member or family for specifically giving you male pattern baldness they gave it to you

[00:22:50] yeah for i know it rotten um for me though um my mom's father was thinning the last i saw him he was like in his 60s i guess and then he passed and so my dad is thinning um all on the top right there and so something i haven't mentioned to you uh jason is two weeks ago i hit my head heard it

[00:23:16] well i had a hand mirror to look at it and i saw that all right on the top right here was thinning like shockingly and never mind all the blood and everything i just focused on how my head looks like my dad's at 50 years old you know or like mine it's not like that not yet not yet see oh yeah

[00:23:40] he's lost a lot um but he doesn't have the male pattern baldness he just slowly lost it i mean the thing is with it's called male pattern hair loss because it follows certain patterns so there are certain areas of the scalp where the hair follicles are sensitive to a hormone called dihydrotestosterone which we call dht so the reason that the male pattern baldness happens is that your testosterone

[00:24:09] converts into dht and that triggers their miniaturization process but only in a certain pattern so that's why it's called a male pattern hair loss so there's actually a scale called the norwood scale and if you google it it will literally show you images of the progression and how where it things and where it goes from in different ways so it may be that certain people

[00:24:36] in your family only progresses up to say stage four whereas yeah someone else it might you might lose it completely so there's a there's a kind of progression to it and some people will go bald some people would just go thinner so it doesn't again necessarily mean that you'll go completely bald yeah i mean my dad's dad yeah um but also don't forget that everybody's hair naturally

[00:25:03] you know past the age of about 50 60 all our skin and our cell production is slowing down yeah so everything our hair's growing is that little bit slower we're not kind of producing quite as much wound healing is um you know slower and harder so everybody their hair will slightly have less hair than they did it's just sad when you look back at a picture of when you were like 25 and

[00:25:31] you're like oh what happened yeah hair off your back and put it on your head you know i mean to you actually your hair moved off your head on to your shoulders yes well i have more hair in my butt crack now than you on my head but i don't i do not understand why that is genetically necessary why do you need a hairier back and a hairier bum when you're old and no hair on your head how does

[00:25:59] that help people in evolution i don't know i don't know what i don't know what's protecting and we're back all right so we also brought you in because we we already talked about how we go through we get a lot of shit wrong and how we approach people but when we had our first talk you did tell me a story about someone who was just kind of like just took it to a next the next

[00:26:27] level when they were talking to someone about their scalp or a scalp issue and it is a very sensitive subject you know what i mean i've actually i've actually lost a guy one time because he came in late for his appointment and he had like just a just the crown like that you know a little bit underneath and he was like hey i'm sorry i'm late for my appointment i'm like that's okay we don't have much to do anyhow so we get this quick the last time i saw him last time so i fucked that one up really good

[00:26:53] you know so um you should have seen the look on his face it was priceless and of course i was like this big afterwards i was like trying to cut his hair i'm like shit but i know exactly yeah so what is one of the craziest stories you've heard or witnessed someone do with a client that is like next level like stupidness like i have done well i mean like i said earlier i've had way too many

[00:27:19] patients tell me that the way that they found out that they were losing their hair was from a traumatic experience of the hairdressers which is never ideal to be honest right it's been way more people than i would like to have been told i mean i've had people come on my podcast and share their story who have literally said to me i've never spoken to this about this before to anyone i've not even spoken to my

[00:27:45] husband he hasn't even seen the extent of my hair loss um none of my family know you know i don't talk about it to anyone and although that's oh we know yeah but although that's perfectly fine that everybody deals with it in their own way it must also be very very lonely and very isolating to not have one single person that you can talk to about your problems and how bad it is and i had a guy who

[00:28:13] before he had a hair transplant he used to literally spend an hour every morning kind of combing all his hair in place and spraying it all down and and hiding and making it just so that he could face kind of going out the front door is he the president somewhere i do i mean we want to change one but yeah is it an orange

[00:28:38] it just kind of floats about a bit doesn't it so but i know that a lot of people one hour huh yeah honestly imagine having to do that every day before you can even kind of leave your bedroom and kind of face the day so it's a lot of stress it's a lot of focus on the negative as well and worrying about things and just general body positivity and confidence as well it's not really good for you so

[00:29:06] any way that people can take that kind of stress and relief off is obviously going to benefit them but there are certain people who really don't they don't want to see maybe the back of their head or you know the top of the head or what they're what they're doing and i had this particular patient that came in and she had what's called dermatillomania so she was picking at her skin and her scalp

[00:29:30] and it's actually a psychological condition it's kind of an ocd spectrum type disorder right so it's very easy and even i've had patients where they've said their doctors just said they've gone to them for help and i've just said well just stop picking your skin yeah yeah great that's it that'll do it thanks didn't think of that yeah it's like what people don't know is that they don't even know they're doing it half the time no they have no idea they're doing it because i've had a client's

[00:29:57] daughter do that and she went through years of therapy until it finally was like they didn't cure her you mean but they got her hair out pulling the hair out yeah my grandmother used to twirl her hair and then pull on it a little bit and she was a little nutty yeah yeah and then there's pulling it out so right um i'll talk a bit about that in a minute because i've got a really great episode on

[00:30:22] my podcast about actual trichotillomania but this particular patient had dermatillomania which obviously they're very similar and she said i didn't even want to i didn't want to see the back of my head i knew what i was doing yeah i feel bad enough i don't need to see the back of my head i don't want to because a lot of people don't want to face up to how bad reality exactly and she went to a salon before she came to see me for help she went to a salon and again it was the worst experience

[00:30:51] probably of her life where the hairdresser literally stood in a full-on busy salon held the mirror up to the back of her head showed her where she'd been damaging her scalp and said look what you're doing to yourself oh shaming her in front of like a full salon for picking at her skin which is a psychological that's like holding up like an anorexic's arm and going look what you're doing to yourself you know

[00:31:16] it's not yeah it's not something you can help and she was absolutely devastated look or is she like doing some parenting classes as well to this girl this hairdresser you know how to raise your children by shaming them to death well this was a great i mean this was a grown adult as well it's not like it was a child it was a grown adult woman who knew what she was doing but also didn't want to know but i just think what did that hairdresser think when she went home she sorted that woman's problems

[00:31:43] out she's never going to do that again how did i i don't know teaching her a lesson yeah i fixed her you know but we all know shaving generally doesn't work holy you know it's what's next a wedgie so ice bucket i don't know yeah i mean what so she was like showing was she showing other people or just like everyone here was i think everybody was just like they were there in the salon getting their hair done and they're all kind of looking around why is this woman being told off

[00:32:13] what's going on kind of thing the woman was absolutely mortified and i don't know if i don't know who saw but she certainly felt like everybody in the whole salon was holding on the back of her head at this point she heard it she could see it no matter how many others uh could so yeah i mean the people across the street heard it too that's that's how she probably saw it that's not the way to handle it yeah it's like calling everyone over hey take a look at this shit you see what she did to

[00:32:41] her head well i mean lucky it was a few years ago and not now because it'd probably be on instagram or tiktok now wouldn't it and everyone would be so that's true yeah now people are wearing the glasses they have the cameras in them imagine so that way yeah they have people have no idea they're being recorded you know so which is a bit unfair right exactly so yeah but as i said i also had um

[00:33:06] a really good episode on my podcast recently where i had a friend of mine who's a trichologist and a hairdresser and one of her clients who's got trichotillomania which is hair pulling so as i said there's various degrees of hair pulling i've got a client whose little son he's three he twiddles the top of his hair now that's not causing any damage it does give him a little piggy tail curl which is

[00:33:32] adorable yeah um but it really makes me laugh because he's got this lit all his hair straight but he's just got this perpetual curl here where he kind of twists it around but that's almost kind of like thumb sucking to me that's like comfort yeah and it's not damaging the hair grandma yeah she would do that he would just twirl it and not even knowing yeah and well you don't know do you it's kind of your whole life so i'm sucking your thumb you don't really know you're doing it until

[00:34:00] someone draws attention to it because it's like a automatic comfort thing isn't it so that's i've kind of thought in the back of my mind oh i'm going to keep an eye on him to see if it gets worse but at the same time it may never get any worse with some people for trichotillomania you can literally develop that as young as kind of seven years old and it often happens in childhood and it can be

[00:34:22] due to kind of instability at home or lots of stress and anxiety and worries and the lady on my podcast she'd had trichotillomania since she was 10 years old so it started she actually witnessed a fatal car crash where four people died when she was 10 and that traumatized her so much that she lost every hair on her head wow whoa yeah and so like eyelashes eyebrows everything yeah and it was

[00:34:51] like proper i don't think she lost her lashes she might have lost her brows but for about the next two years everyone thought she was a boy because she just had really short hair and they kept saying oh your son you know how is he which is even more issues yeah she got not it was very very annoying um yeah and she probably had ptsd as well but all the doctor was kind of concerned about was trying to get her hair back they weren't really concerned about her mental health at all because it was the

[00:35:17] 80s and um she then started when her hair grew back it grew back really coarse and kearney and she didn't like the texture of it so she started pulling bits out oh right and she's literally been doing this now for 40 years oh yeah and so has she been wearing wigs in the meantime no she's got very good at managing it so that she only does a certain amount and she does it in little areas and she

[00:35:43] can kind of hide it but even that in itself was very funny because she's been with her boyfriend for 20 years now and i said to her when did you tell your boyfriend like was it like a first date scenario was it like five years later like how did this all come about and she said oh it was quite a while into our relationship and apparently her kind of sister-in-law i think the wind changed and she

[00:36:08] saw a ball patch she said oh well you've got a bit of a ball patch there liz and she was mortified again because obviously she thought she could hide it pretty well and when she got home she thought oh i'd better have the talk and she kind of said to her boyfriend look there's something i need to tell you you know i i actually have a little bit of a condition and i i kind of pull my hair out and he went yeah i know yeah yeah i live with you like i know the whole time yeah sure i mean known for

[00:36:37] ages and just kind of gone oh you know she's just weird i'll just let her do it it's fine no he just knows he knew i mean have you never taken a shower with your partner or like i'm sorry when i have sex you're like i'm going for your hands are everywhere you're gonna know it's not like you like you know kiss someone and touch back in their head you're kind of like oh that's a little like leathery yeah you know what i mean you know but bless it was lovely because i think it really it's like when people

[00:37:03] come out as gay isn't it and all the family are like why are you telling us we've known this for years like what are you on right so yeah it's like people around you know anyway yeah yeah no not yeah well he was just you know he loves her he's a supporting guy he's actually quite funny now because he's the one now that kind of goes um i think you've been going a little bit mad lately i think you need to rein it in a little bit because it's starting to really show and she goes oh oh okay

[00:37:30] yeah okay it's a bit much however she has he's watching her yeah yeah but yeah and he can see them as well yeah now she's not hurting it yeah but she did say that she has never been able to go to a salon before she met my friend four years ago and just enjoy going getting a hair done because that worry of what do i tell them what do i say do i tell them i do it to myself she was always very

[00:37:57] conscious that there were always people stood behind kind of pointing and laughing and you know like the assistants would always be like awesome you know and she said oh that would that would be me i'm doing that i'm the one sitting in the corner going look at that shit yeah right but even if they're not when you're paranoid about something like that yeah even if someone stood in the corner having a joke with their client you think it's about you absolutely no because you're like oh my god

[00:38:22] everyone's looking at me so and she said she's very difficult with something like trichotillomania as well because there's no empathy for that so if you've got anapesia areata where clumps of your hair fall out people feel very sorry for you and they're very understanding and they say oh no how terrible whereas if you tell them and say well i'm doing it to myself they're like what you're doing it what are you doing that for yeah so you get a completely different reaction and it's often not

[00:38:48] yeah it's often not good so she found it very very intimidating going to a salon and she really didn't like it and she's now in my friend's kind of private salon where oh nice yeah it's a very personal environment and obviously my friend is also a trichologist so she understands about trichotillomania okay good and she can just get her hair done and be like yeah i've got ball patches

[00:39:13] at the back just ignore it get on with color in my hair and has a nice time and has a coffee and doesn't have to worry about it so that's really nice yeah cool all right so jack any more questions no actually uh that's it i think thank you so much for being on the show we really appreciate it if you guys are interested in anything that kay's been talking about i'm going to go through and put her website and everything into the show notes please go through you do a online course is that

[00:39:40] right one day course to the one day course if you're interested in this if you can help this build up your arsenal as a hairdresser you get as much knowledge as you can to go through and actually pass it on to your clients please check it out go on to her course go through and sign up it's only one day and get as much information as you can hey thank you so much for being on here we really appreciate it and uh see you next time thank you thank you

[00:40:10] and now it's time for shitology jason did you learn anything oh my god i learned so much katie was absolutely amazing yep um there were certain things that i just loved you know like how to go through and to get your client to go through and stop picking or pulling their hair i mean to shame them publicly is probably the best thing to do so that way you just start calling people over

[00:40:37] showing people exactly what she's doing to her head so that way she feels so shitty about what she's doing she just stops i'm not sure that was her message um no you really learn nothing okay so that would make you look like an asshole the way to do it is more of a passive aggressive way so having a piston to a whole video recording and you can post it online oh tiktok or something like

[00:41:05] that and really embarrass them later oh okay that way you like the good guy and they have no idea you're creating like a revenge porn for them exactly perfect and with that stay shitty hey listen to persons thanks for listening and if you like our show please help us grow the podcast by giving us a rating and review on apple podcast spotify iheart radio amazon prime or wherever you

[00:41:31] get your favorite shit it definitely helps our algorithm and it's free to do if you like to get your story on our podcast go to our website at shititoldmyhairdrift.com where you can get your voicemail on our show by using the green mic icon or you can send us an email at info at shititoldmyhairdrift.com and if you like us tell 10 of your friends and if you hate us tell 20 and remember stay shitty listener persons