If you’re a hairstylist, chances are you didn’t just learn balayage, cutting theory, and color formulation.
You also learned how to listen to divorces.
Addictions.
Family meltdowns.
Financial disasters.
And emotional breakdowns — all before lunch.
Welcome to trauma dumping in the salon.
In this episode of Sh!t I Told My Hairdresser, we sit down with licensed therapist Tom Hintelmann, to unpack why hairdressers have quietly become everyone’s unpaid therapist — and why that emotional labor is pushing so many stylists out of the industry.
What Is Trauma Dumping?
Trauma dumping happens when someone unloads intense emotional experiences onto another person without consent, boundaries, or awareness.
In salons, it sounds like:
“I haven’t told anyone this, but…”
“You’re the only person I can talk to.”
“Don’t tell anyone, but my life is falling apart.”
And suddenly you’re mid-foil placement while hearing about:
divorce proceedings
substance abuse
childhood trauma
family betrayals
financial ruin
Hairdressers didn’t sign up for this — but clients keep doing it anyway.
Why Hairdressers Are the Perfect Target
According to Tom Hintelmann, salons create the perfect storm for trauma dumping:
Clients feel physically safe
The environment feels intimate
The stylist is literally touching them
There’s a power imbalance (they’re seated, you’re focused)
Hairdressers are trained to be warm, empathetic, and non-judgmental
The problem?
Empathy without boundaries leads to burnout.
Tom calls hairdressers “first-line therapists without the training.”
The Emotional Cost No One Talks About
If a stylist hears just five minutes of trauma per client, and sees:
8 clients a day
5 days a week
That’s over 3 hours of emotional trauma absorbed every week.
And unlike therapists:
Hairdressers don’t get clinical supervision
They don’t get emotional decompression time
They don’t get taught how to disengage
They just go home exhausted — not physically, but emotionally.
This is why so many stylists leave the industry even when they love doing hair.
Trauma Dumping Goes Both Ways
The episode doesn’t let hairstylists off the hook either.
Stylists trauma dump too.
Clients stop coming back when:
Every appointment is a crisis update
The stylist overshares personal tragedies
The chair becomes emotionally heavy
One uncomfortable truth discussed in the episode:
“Clients didn’t come to process your life — they came to get their hair done.”
Boundaries protect both sides of the chair.
Why Beauty School Never Prepared Anyone for This
Beauty school teaches:
how to pass the state board
how to section
how to sanitize
It does not teach:
emotional boundaries
conflict resolution
communication under stress
how to stop trauma dumping politely
As a result, new stylists (“baby birds”) get hit the hardest.
They don’t yet have the confidence — or authority — to shut conversations down.
The Role of Salon Leadership in Burnout
One of the most important takeaways from the episode:
Trauma dumping is a leadership issue, not a stylist flaw.
When salons lack:
structure
clear roles
trained managers
emotional boundaries
Chaos fills the gap.
Tom explains that strong salons:
define expectations clearly
train managers to protect staff
don’t allow constant negativity
understand that culture rolls downhill
Weak leadership creates emotional free-for-alls.
How to Stop Trauma Dumping Without Being Rude
Tom offers practical strategies hairdressers can actually use:
1. Don’t Encourage the Story
Listening ≠ engaging.
Avoid follow-up questions that deepen the trauma.
2. Reflect, Then Redirect
Acknowledge briefly, then change the subject:
“That sounds really difficult. So tell me — are we still doing the same length today?”
3. Remember: It’s Not Your Story
You can empathize without absorbing.
4. Refer to a Higher Level of Care
Just like you’d send someone to a dermatologist for hair loss:
“That sounds like something a therapist could really help with.”
This removes the burden from you — professionally and ethically.
Self-Care Isn’t Selfish (It’s Survival)
One of the strongest EEAT moments in the episode is the emphasis on self-care as professional responsibility, not indulgence.
Tom explains:
You can’t pour from an empty cup
Emotional labor requires recovery time
Leaving work at work is essential
He compares it to leaving your scissors at the salon:
If you take them home, you’ll never stop working.
Why Burnout Isn’t About Standing All Day
Most people assume hairstylists burn out because of:
sore feet
shoulder pain
long hours
But the episode makes something clear:
The real burnout is emotional.
It’s the constant exposure to:
conflict
negativity
trauma
unresolved pain
Hairdressers don’t leave because they can’t do hair —
they leave because they can’t carry everyone else’s problems anymore.
About the Guest Expert
Tom Hintelmann, LCSW is a licensed therapist and consultant specializing in:
workplace dynamics
emotional resilience
burnout prevention
team culture
He works directly with salons, stylists, and leadership teams to improve communication, boundaries, and sustainability in high-stress environments.
🔗 Psychology Today Profile:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/tom-hintelmann-tinton-falls-nj/1211790
📸 Instagram: @performnce_mental_health
Final Thoughts: Hairdressers Are Not Therapists — and That’s Okay
Hairdressers are:
artists
professionals
service providers
human beings
They are not emotional dumping grounds.
This episode of Sh!t I Told My Hairdresser isn’t about becoming colder —
it’s about becoming healthier.
Boundaries don’t make you bad at your job.
They make your career sustainable.
🎧 Listen to the Full Episode
Trauma Dumping: Why Hairdressers Are Everyone’s Unpaid Therapist
Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major platforms.
If this article hit home:
share it with your salon
send it to a stylist who’s burned out
and remember — it’s okay to say no
Meta Title:
Trauma Dumping in the Salon: Why Hairdressers Are Burning Out
Meta Description:
Why hairdressers absorb client trauma, how it causes burnout, and what licensed therapist Tom Hintelmann says salons must do to survive.
Hey, what's happening?
Oh, fuck. You don't even wanna know, man. My business partner has left me fucking high and dry. I can't let get anybody to work for me. He embezzled all this fucking money from me, man. Just stole everything. Found out he's fucking doing drugs and shit. I had to fire his fucking ass and don't let me get started on my goddamn mom.
My mom's going through and stealing money from me. She's lying to my kids. I mean, every time I turn around, it's something with my fucking family just fucking terrorizing me and shit. You know, or just like, you know, my business partners and stuff, man, I don't fucking know. It's just crazy.
Mm. Yeah. Um, do you want to go shorter on the sides?
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Shit I Told my hairdresser, Jack. How are you?
Hi. Wonderful.
Good.
Thank
I have, I haven't floated away yet. If anybody's wondering about Seattle. Uh, we're not underwater. We're fine. [00:01:00] But, uh, the water is coming down. The levee broke, so it has been kind of crazy around here. And speaking of, uh, things a little crazy.
Uh, our industry is a little crazy and I have been talking to Tom Hinman, who's our guest today, who is a solution based therapist. Hey, Tom, how are you?
Good. How are you guys today?
Good. And, uh, we brought you on to go through and talk about, uh, a little bit about hairdressers and our craziness. So I think one of the things that we see a lot on social media.
Is how uh, hairdressers number one don't get along and neither it can be with each other inside the salon or with clients, or clients going through and trauma dumping on us. And I think those kind of some of the topics that, uh, you deal with. Am I correct?
Yeah. Um, I work with, uh, salons and, um, team building. I work with, uh, hairdressers [00:02:00] individually as clients, and we work with the idea of trying to improve group dynamics and improve the overall atmosphere of the salon experience itself. We're both the owner, the client, and the stylist.
Nice. So, and that's like one of the things is that, you know, we're not very good at that, you know, I don't think, Jack, were you trained in this on how to go through and get along with people or.
Not at all. And, I still, I don't know how to, um,
Correct.
that's hard work, you know? Salons are just crazy usually. So
Well, what we were told as well too is like when you go into beauty school, it's like, give us money and I guarantee you're gonna make like a million dollars afterwards. But they don't teach you about how to handle situations inside the salon with other staff members because I mean, it starts right there in beauty.
All the girls start fighting right at school, immediately, you know, and it just continues on. You have these like mean girls, you know? You have this one girl who thinks she's the [00:03:00] head of the HR department inside the salon, and she's not even the owner. You know, and we don't have an HR department, but there was just a lot of things that we discussed, Tom, that I think, well, we probably need to bring you back on.
'cause one of the things that I was really surprised with, 'cause you're in New Jersey, is that you actually have to go through and take courses, like basically business courses before you can a hairdresser.
Before you can become a high school graduate, even. Um,
Wow.
high school, so sophomore year, you have to take six months of finance or five months of finance,
See we cut none of that.
No.
So I think these are some of the things we probably, we'll, we'll, we'll talk, we'll touch on that later on, I think maybe on another episode. But I think today is more about, uh, everyone's mental wellbeing inside the salon and. What did, what do you do to go through and get along with people inside the salon?
How do you go through and handle that type of stress if [00:04:00] there's, there's nothing worse than walking into work, and yet there's that one person who you're like, oh fuck, they're here today. There's nothing worse than that. So we turn to you, Tom. What we, what should we be experiencing? Or do you have any anecdotes for us on what we need to go through and be doing?
Sure. Um, well, salons can be mean places, as you know. Um, mean girls is really a salon story set in a high school. Um, you know, I'll give you a story about that. Well, when I was a teacher, I was a teacher for three, four years. We had vocational technical school students and some of my favorite were some of my cosmetology students.
But they would come in with these, you know, wild stories about cosmetology school and a lot of 'em were tough kids. And the one day they come up to me, it's the first day they come to me and they say, Mr. Helman, can you believe that they throw you out if you fight just one time? I'm thinking to myself.
Yeah, razors, scissors, wax. Yeah. We don't wanna be doing that.
Oh, we can [00:05:00] cut a bitch. That's for sure.
Exactly. But the worst part was they figured out a way around the rule because they had a girl who was giving them problems. So they befriended the girl and the day waxing came, they gave her the surprise. you wanna know what the surprise is?
Yes.
The surprise is they waxed her eyebrows. To make her look like a clown. So they went up in a big arch and down. So she had a
Oh
surprise on her face.
she got theso face. That's what it is, right?
See?
That's clown in Spanish, so
Yeah. So she got, yeah, she got the surprise. So, uh, you know, so they befriended her. They made her think that, you know, she was part of them and whatever, and they were like, mean girls like her. And then they gave her that surprise.
wow.
to be sorry about it and told their teacher it was an accident.
I was wondering. Yeah. Um, geez, you know. How does that end up, you know,
Yeah, I love it. I'm, I'm writing [00:06:00] that, I'm writing that down right now from my notes, so next time I do a waxing, I'm kidding. I don't do waxing.
so one thing you can tell with salons from. The ones I work with and I try to work with the leadership
I think it all starts with the leadership
yes. One thing I found out is the shit always rolls downhill. Right? Still does. Okay.
And it's gotta really, there has to be a structure of everybody doing their role. everybody stays in their role, fine. When people start to cross into other people's roles, that's when the problems start.
Okay, so you're saying that basically like with salon owners need to go through and stay in control of the salon and if they don't, then that's again, so if you're basically have a salon owner who just wants to be a staff member. You mean and a friend and not a boss, you're gonna run into a lot of issues.
It's a very difficult, um, job to wear all those hats.
Right,
Um, you know, I think the owner has to set the vision of the salon and what they want the salon to be. [00:07:00] Um, I think they should hire a manager, if at all possible, to kind of be the go-between.
right,
And that manager's really the one responsible for setting the tone
right.
and enforcing the tone and making sure everybody's on the same page
so that's the thing is that that first, that person has to be trained though by the owner. And the owner should be going through and reflecting exactly what the culture should be,
Exactly.
then the manager has to be en enforcing that.
Yeah, and once your, once your culture is down, I think people kind of gravitate to it. If it's a positive culture, if it's a weak culture or a negative culture, then you're gonna have problems. You know, I know you guys have worked in some pretty high end salons and you notice that for the most part, the culture is there.
Yes, there, there is a culture and it's not always great though.
It doesn't necessarily mean it's a positive culture. It could be a toxic culture, but they definitely have a brand and they definitely have an idea of which [00:08:00] way they're going.
Yes.
It may not
Yeah.
idea and it may not be the practical idea, and that's one thing as a stylist is if you're in a situation like that, it's probably a good idea to get out of it if you can. If there's another option available and something that fits you better now, sometimes you have to kind of suck it up and deal the first couple years in the industry because really you don't bring that much to the table. So
Hmm.
that experience. So part of like coming in fresh is you have to be a good soldier, good, bad, or indifferent. You know, you have to try to make it work
Right. So that's what, that's what toughens up your skin.
yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
builds resilience. And you know, I think that idea of if you have a resilient staff and you build your own resilience, you can function in any environment
Okay.
because you're re resilient. You know, we do some assertiveness training, we do, uh, things like that where employees are taught how to advocate for themselves, um, how to ask questions of [00:09:00] management, how to take direction properly and give direction properly for management. Because a lot of times it gets lost in the translation, and that's where a lot of our problems come.
Yes, the communication is definitely the key portion of it, but it's not just sometimes being able to go through and give the direction, but being able to comprehend it
Yeah.
then actually communicate effectively on the, uh, actual topic. And that's where things get lost in translation from many hairdressers.
'cause what they'll do is they'll go through like, Hey, the prices got raised up on our rent. Or whatever it is, and then they all go through and start bitching about, well, we're not getting this or we're not getting that. They don't say anything. All they do is they go in the back, in the break room and start to complain instead of com actually communicating on what they would like because the prices went up.
Yeah, and the worst part is when another employee gets involved in that communication.
Mm-hmm.
Because people are going to spin that to their own advantage. It's human nature.
[00:10:00] Right.
So there's that idea of, you know, I'm getting this commission, well I'm getting this commission. Okay, so you get, you know, 55% commission, I get 70%.
Now I might only be getting 60%, but I'm telling you I get 70%.
Correct.
Uh.
And you know, you see that cause a rift within the staff.
Yes. That's why I always tell staff, usually I'm not the owner anymore and I used to be, but I always tell people. Do not talk about your money.
Bingo.
not, because that is the right, there is probably one of the biggest points that people go through and they either quit or they start fighting about, it's always over money or You stole my client now I'm not making any money over this, or whatever it may be, but whatever.
It always comes down to money, that's for sure. So,
Yeah. And jealousy.
Yes. And gel. And that's the thing is jealousy. And that's one of the things I wanted to talk about as well too, and we did kind [00:11:00] of talk about that, was the people who are jealous inside the salon, they're fighting with especially lot of the new stylists that come in now.
Can you tell us a little bit about that? What that's about?
I think there's a lot of, um, I think tell a secure a person is by how they treat a new stylist.
Yeah.
'cause you'll have those stylists who wanna be great mentors and just want to help because that's the type of person they are. But you have other stylists who are insecure and usually they're kind of your lower ability stylist or they're kind of on the fence themselves. So they wanna push this down onto the new stylist because it takes the pressure off them.
Everybody likes to feel superior to somebody. And if you're the new stylist coming in, you know, and I'm, I'm insecure in my spot, I'm gonna make sure you know that, you know, I'm above you.
And how would you handle something like that? Say if you're a new stylist or you're a baby stylist and you have like the mean girls in the salon kind of coming [00:12:00] at you. How would you suggest that that new person build up their confidence or what, what, what do they need to do to go through and kinda get over that so they can still like continue inside that salon and still be an effective hairstylist?
I think part of it is you have to have the confidence in yourself.
So you're kind of building up this kinda wall of self-esteem around yourself. secondly, don't engage. they, they want you to engage. They're baiting you for a reason.
They want you in the drama,
Yep.
either they're recruiting you as an ally. Or they're using you as a scapegoat.
That's the thing, isn't it? They want you as a, yeah, as an ally. You know a lot of 'em, they wanna start off that way to see if you'll fall for it, and then they have that negative buddy inside the salon, Or they want to trip you up later on and throw everything on top of you.
Yeah. So it's good to try to isolate yourself. From the drama whenever possible. This is tempting. We all, you know, like to get involved in kind of what's happening at [00:13:00] work because it is work, so we need some sort of diversion,
Absolutely. I mean, everyone wants to be part of the group. I mean, that's, that's human nature. You know what I mean? To be wanting to be part of something and that's why you join a hair salon.
Mm-hmm.
Of that culture and you wanna be part of something and you actually liked what you saw early on when you started, and that's why you went to go work there.
Yeah, and I really think that knowing your kind of role as baby stylist, you know, you keep your ears open and your mouth shut, and you just kind of see what's going on. That's why you have two ears and one mouth,
Yeah, exactly.
you just kind of absorb the culture. As you go, and then you can gradually work into the conversations, et cetera.
Offer an opinion here or there, but you know, it sometimes it doesn't help. Like if there's something going on, don't interject your opinion in it as a new stylist, okay? Because chances are it's not going to help it's just going to breed resentment. You know, [00:14:00] once you're there a little bit, once you got trust, then you bring up your opinion.
Okay? you know, as long as we try to learn from those around us, I think that's one of the big things. I think secondly, if you could find another baby bird stylist to kind of pair up with or an assistant or something like that, it helps to be new, not not alone in new,
Yeah.
okay.
Yeah.
of that ally there. also, you know, be kind to your assistance because they can make your life heaven or hell as a new stylist.
That is true.
So,
That is very true.
I try to teach them that, you know, you want to treat everybody with respect,
Yeah.
in order to get respect, you have to usually start by giving respect first. Maybe it shouldn't work that way. You should just get it automatically. But the world doesn't work that way, especially in industry with egos.
And that's the thing is that, yeah, this is such an ego-driven industry, that's for sure. We know that. I think Jack and I know that very well, especially with my, especially with my ego. It's massive. So.
[00:15:00] If that was mine. I can't say a word, but, uh,
You see Jack's not disagreeing, right?
now Jack, you were looking like you
I.
yeah. What do you think about what I just said? You know, do you agree with most of that or,
Yeah. basically egos, lawns they're just magnets that, type. And then we worked in Los Angeles, and it's even more of a magnet, you know, it's, it's just a mecca People with these huge egos and everyone wants attention and it's, it's a hard, uh, thing, um, to navigate.
So salons are only one part of life, you know? Uh, but, but lots of those had never really learned how to behave. With others so they don't work well with others. Some of 'em.
Exactly. I totally agree with that. You know what I mean? But also, what about the one stylist that just doesn't get along with anybody, And just, it's just a [00:16:00] breeding ground for negativity inside the salon. Everything that comes outta her mouth. Usually she's going through and just being negative about, you know, whatever it be like the Christmas party that we had, or just like, you know, the salon, how her coffee sucks or the people around everyone hates you.
Hates her inside the salon. what do we do with that person?
Talking about me. I feel like you're talking about me.
It is only on, I only do that on Tuesdays.
All
Oh, today's Tuesday.
are you?
Oh no. Yeah.
So what I would say with that in particular is that's a management issue, not necessarily a stylist issue directly.
Uh huh.
So I would recommend you going to try to, one, talk to a more experienced stylist who you trust on how to deal with their first. If that doesn't work, you know, go to management and ask how to deal with it. But really, it's management's responsibility. Now, [00:17:00] if that stylist is a star that's bringing in big money, you
Right.
can sometimes do what they want and it's just
Yep.
business. And you know, I was a basketball coach for many years and there were separate rules for Michael Jordan and Dennis Rodman than there were for the rest of the Chicago Bulls.
Yeah.
You know,
Yeah. Dennis had different rules in my shop too. He could do cocaine on top of the station anytime he wanted, so.
And that's gonna be it. You know, you have certain, you know, clients that you're gonna make exceptions for and you're gonna have, if your stylist is good at bringing in money, you know, I can get another baby bird stylist, I can get another assistant, but you know, I can't get somebody that's proven to draw money.
And in the end of the day, it's a business.
Right. Yeah.
to understand if you're gonna complain about somebody in your salon, you're risking your own, credibility and your own job potentially. Because if it comes down to keeping the toxic member who's drawing money or you who's a baby bird stylist, um, chances are most salons will go the money. [00:18:00] 'cause it is a business
There you go.
and you put up with a lot of ego because you know it makes you money. The question comes into, if they're not making money and they're still there, are they poisoning? Of the salon
and
Are they, are they the cancer? Yeah,
You know, when you have cancer you cut it out.
So you know, sometimes you have to balance, is it worth it long term?
Will I make more money getting rid of this person building a salon culture where everybody will do better because that person's not there.
Bye, Felicia.
Yep.
And that's, that's, you know, that's the question for many salons. It's kind of like, well, they're so good and they're bring, you know, they're fully booked all the time. They have a waiting list, but they're impossible to deal with. And at some point, you know, if your salon's good enough, you can get by without 'em.
Yeah.
good enough, they can get by without you. with Salon Suites opening all over the place.
Exactly. Go get a suite.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alright,
it is. There's a door.
[00:19:00]
Alright, so one of the things that we did talk about Tom, and it's one of the really big topics out right now, I'm seeing it all over social media. I get, I hear about it inside the salon every single day in the break room, and that is trauma dumping when clients come in and trauma dump on you and. It.
It's just, it can be really exhausting and I think it's the reason why a lot of hairdressers sometimes just leave the industry 'cause they're not tired because their legs hurt or their shoulders hurt from blow drying. They're tired of all this trauma that they're hearing every single day and we don't know how to handle it, you know?
But also on the other side as well though too, there's a lot of hairstylists that tend to trauma dump onto the client as well though, too. So there is two sides of this, that's for sure. And you always [00:20:00] kinda wonder like, yeah, you haven't seen that client in a long time. You know, it's like, well the last time you, they came in, you told 'em about the boyfriend that broke up with you.
Your mom had cancer and your dog died. And you know, it's just like, you know, they just keep going and going. And it seems like every time they come in. You're a fucking mess and maybe they don't want to hear your shit anymore. So I think there's two sides to that. I think it's something that we actually wanted to go through and discuss with you today.
Sure. So as hairdressers, I call you guys first line therapist
without the training. You're the therapist, we're not, but you're first line
therapists. So what first line therapists are are people who. Their clients think they're therapists, but they have the role confused. You know, you're there to make 'em look great.
You're there to make 'em feel great, but you're not there to process their trauma, right? And what ends up happening is if you get a little bit of trauma, each client, let's say you get five minutes of trauma from each client, at the end of the [00:21:00] day, you know you're looking at 40 minutes to an hour of heavy duty stuff.
If each client has one five minute. Disaster story to tell you. That's a lot to carry through. The rest of the day. Time stopped by five to six days a week and it takes its toll. And during the holidays you've got your own stress and you're doing, you know, 12 clients a day. And, you know, it grows incrementally and exponentially so it becomes a real problem.
Um, some of the best ways to kind of keep trauma dumping intact is one, to try to set some boundaries. Boundary settings are really important. It's okay that your client kind of says what they say, but you don't wanna try to encourage it any more than it is.
So what we need to do is like, is that the word we kind go through and kind of switch the conversation into something else?
Mm-hmm. Or, okay.
Yeah. Or you can listen reflectively. Right. Try not to commiserate. Okay. [00:22:00] Yes. There's a difference between being sympathetic, empathetic, and involved.
Correct.
And you know, if you involve yourself in it, it's like being a therapist. You know, we have to basically forget everything we heard as soon as that session ends, right?
Because you have to be a blank slate for the next client that comes in. So I can't, this, this is not your story. You're, you're involved if you make yourself involved.
Right? Don't get involved. Okay. Yeah. Right.
So just remember it's not your story. You can listen, you can sympathize, you can even empathize, but just realize that the more you.
Involve yourself, the more you're going to take out of it. So, you know, listen appropriately, sympathize or empathize, whatever your situation may be, and then try to move the conversation on where you can bring something else up, you know, change the subject.
So basically it's like you're that, that transfer of energy, if you let them take it, they're going to take it.
Yeah. Clients are emotional vampires. [00:23:00] They will take your energy and waste it. Right. They suck it in and then they're feeling good when they leave the salon, they're letting it all out 'cause they've just dumped it all on you. So it's off their plate and now it's on yours. And they look great. Yeah. And they look great.
They look great. They feel great. They've told you their life story. They feel wonderful. And you, you sat there and listened to, you know, eight to 12 tragedies a day, or eight to 12 conflicts a day, or eight to 12, you know, situations a day. Problems a day and you've got your own problems.
Right? Now that I'm thinking about how my clients are, I don't think I've had anyone really who wants to dump trauma on me since I left LA Good.
Most of mine now, if they don't tell me they're ar, maybe like one or two of 'em, I've just learned enough, um, to not ask, you know, like. You know who not to ask, um, how you doing, because they may actually tell you and you don't wanna [00:24:00] know. So I don't ask. You don't ask them at all.
That's a great strategy.
No, that's very true.
I mean, that is like one of the things is that also having that positive energy when you walk in to the salon, I think is really important. That's why I like to meditate in the morning, so I have that higher vibration when I walk in. And one of the things that someone did say to me a while back that stuck with me is that every time I walk in, dude, you're always happy and you always have a smile on my face and it puts one on mine.
And I was like. I do. I mean, oh, thank you. I was like, wow. No, no, no. Somebody told you this. Yeah, it actually happened.
Jack. I'll actually go through and I'll, you must have been, I'll tell you who it was. Dreaming or something, I don't know. Or drunk. That didn't really happen.
No, but it was just one of the things as well, the two is that we don't know as hairstylist when to go through and tell a client no.
So that way they are not going through and dumping on us.
Yeah. And by doing so, you know, sometimes it comes [00:25:00] off as rude. You know, it's the customer's always right. And I think you're referring to before, like you know, the boss will say to you, well, you know that's what you're there for and really you're there to do their hair.
Correct. That's what you're there for. So I think sometimes ownership and management has unrealistic expectations, especially with baby bird stylist because they don't have the life experience necessarily even to be handling this, being dropped on them in many cases. So they're just overwhelmed, and I think they kind of take it to heart where sometimes more veteran or hardened stylists can kind of play it off a little bit.
That's you, Jack. You're a hardened stylist. That's you. Yeah, that's
right. No, and that's true. I mean, number one, it does thicken up your skin as a baby stylist, that's for sure. You know what I mean? But when you have a manager who is like, Hey, the client's always right. And you're like, oh no, I just can't do their hair anymore because every time they come in, they're just like dumping on me.
Mm-hmm. You know? What's that conversation look like with like a S salon manager? What would you say [00:26:00] to go through and be like, Hey, can you pass 'em along to somebody else? Or what
would you suggest? I would suggest that you talk to the manager and say they need a higher degree of care than I'm capable of giving them.
Yeah. Okay. We even say that in the therapy business. I have clients where I have to send, you know, people come in that I have to send out because we don't provide the particular type of care that they're going to need. So they might need a more intensive care than what we can provide. You know, I would say something and And medication.
Medication
and medication. What I was gonna say too,
so, you know, I mean maybe she needs a more, you know, you could say, well maybe she might be better off with a more experienced stylist who would be less distracted. By what she is bringing to the conversation or bringing to the chair. Yeah. Or maybe you could observe and give me some suggestions or some feedback afterwards on how to handle [00:27:00] this because I'm not necessarily comfortable having to talk about some of these things or talk about, you know, I'm not qualified to try to advise on this type of stuff.
That's the thing with hairdressers, you know, I have to admit though, is that someone did tell me one time, like, you always seem to know a little bit about something. Yeah. You know, and I go, well, I also get at least like nine people in my chair per day. And some of these people are. I mean, they're CEOs of companies that I have in my chair.
I have people who run massive companies where I have the person who, you know, also works at the coffee shop. So you have every walk of life sitting in your chair and you're gonna get a little bit of something from everybody. And when, oh God, where was I coming with this point? I'm sorry. Um, when you get, oh my God, I completely lost it guys.
I'm really sorry. This is how you became a
know-it-all. Exactly. That's what it,
well, just because you know that's what you wanting to explain doesn't mean you should do something,
[00:28:00] right. Well, no. Okay. I, I'm, I'm sorry. So what, what I meant to say was, is that people come to us for all this information because we seem to know a little bit about everything.
Yeah. You know, and so they feel it's safe 'cause we fix their hair or we fix this. Like, what else can we fix in their life? Yeah. So they come to us, but we're not licensed therapists and a lot of hairdressers will act like it. Yeah. And give, uh, advice behind the chair. And I'm looking over going like, I wouldn't be given that spew and that advice if I were you.
'cause that doesn't sound very sound. That's not sound advice, you know? So it's like you should probably be telling your client to go see a therapist. 'cause like we have people come in for things like that. Um, like, Hey, I'm losing my hair. Go see a dermatologist.
Yep.
Or go, do you see, I'm not that person.
I'm the guy who cuts your three hairs. I'm not the guy who fixes give you 20.
I think that's an excellent recommendation is to go see a therapist and you know, you happen to know a therapist in your area, you know, you want to keep cards around or something [00:29:00] like that, you know, that is perfectly fine. Yeah, referral is great and they get the message right there that you're not qualified to care, but just, you know, just say, wow, you know, it sounds like you really need to see some, you know, you need to talk to someone professional.
Or you really might need to see a therapist about that. They do great things with whatever you're dealing with and kind of take the stigma away from mental health and it kind of takes it off your plate and puts it onto theirs. Just like we always make sure people get care. But we know when we are kind of not the best fit for a certain client, so we just kind of move them to a higher level of care.
You can kind of do the same, it's kind of doing the same thing by referring them to a therapist. Say, look, you know, I, I totally sympathize what you're saying, or I get what you're saying. You know, maybe you really wanna talk this over with somebody, like a professional in it. And that's kind of a nice way.
'cause you basically told them, okay, I'm listening, but you know, I really can't help. And now you've taken the ball outta your court and put it [00:30:00] back into theirs and you can go with a clean conscience that you did everything you could.
And that's the thing is that, that they expect that level from you?
Yeah. For some reason because other hairdressers have done it with them. Mm-hmm. You know, and they, it's, it's like they leave with a clean slate from that point. But again, you didn't fix anything for them. Yeah. You know, the only thing is a confession.
They just want to talk to. Yeah. Somebody. That's all it is.
Really. Yeah. And, and, and there were ones I've told them, I'm like, whoa, you need to go talk to someone who knows what they're doing. You know? Seems like you need a little help with that. Uh, who's also ones I recommended a rehab 'em. I'm like, maybe you ought to go to this one place. It's real nice.
Well, that's higher level.
That's what we call a higher level of care. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. That's what we refer to it as. Usually that's where a lot of it goes is to a higher level of care means either intensive outpatient or rehab [00:31:00] or, you know, a facility, residential facility.
And, but that's one of the things I've been seen on social media as well though too, is that a lot of hairdressers think that, that they're, they're the first line of care when it comes to their clients, you know, and how you should go through and.
Respond to certain things or find out if they're being, you know, and on the extreme cases being abused, you know, and what you do from there. And it's like, uh, you wanna, what? The only thing you can really do is maybe say like, you can't call the authorities. Tell them, but you can tell them maybe to that they should be doing that, but I don't really think that a lot of hairdressers should be like the first defense on a lot of things that clients are telling them.
Yeah. I think that is because they were saying, oh, we should have training on this and show our clients on how to go through and handle certain situations. Not our job.
No. Like you were
saying, we're there to make you look beautiful. Not have to deal with all the other issues. And as soon as you kinda let that go and thinking you're not that person to be going through and [00:32:00] being their guardian angel, probably the better off as a hairdresser you're gonna be.
'cause you're focused on their hair and not all the other things they're giving you.
Yeah. You have to set those boundaries And you know when you leave it at the salon, when you go home? Yes. It's the best thing. I leave everything at the office. When I go home, I play with my dog. I talk to my children when they're home, I talk to my wife.
We watch tv, go, whatever. But I really don't think about work when I'm not there and Right. You know, by doing so, you can't carry it home with you or it will kind of destroy you and burn you out very quickly.
And I think that's what a lot of hairdressers are talking about. You know what I mean? It's just that burnout.
You know, it's not their legs, it's not the shoulders, it's the actual emotional burnout that they're getting. And some hairdressers only last three to five years in this industry if they dunno how to handle it or getting the proper therapy
Yeah. To visualize it. I, I view work as a box. Okay. And my office is kind of like shaped like a box anyway, so as soon as I [00:33:00] walk outside the box, everything I did during the day is inside the box.
Hmm. Even if I'm gonna do paperwork or whatever and I don't have a client, I come in the office and do it. So I don't do it from home. I don't bring anything home with me. The only thing I do at home is like read professional development type things, that type of thing for enrichment. But I don't, you know, do any of the office tasks or I don't do anything at home.
I can even see clients from my house. Via video therapy, but I don't do it because my home is a separate space.
Exactly. So you have to learn how to compartmentalize things so that way it's like you leave this compartment over here and that one over there and you don't mix Yeah. Them together. Okay. Yeah, it's,
it's the same thing you guys can probably relate to this is.
One of my friends was a hairdresser, said the best advice they ever got was leave the scissors in the shop. Mm-hmm. 'cause you bring the scissors home with you, you'll be cutting at every family occasion, you'll be cutting every neighbor, friend, et cetera, and you know you need time. From that, [00:34:00] you know, tell the person if they want a haircut, come see you in the shop.
Yep. Um, you know, and that keeps work there now, you know? Yeah. Mom or somebody special. Yes, I get it. You know, there's certain ones you're gonna have to make exceptions for, but by and large, you know, leave your scissors at the shop. Leave your work at the shop.
There you go. Good advice. Alright, so one of the other reasons that we invite you onto the show, 'cause this is called Shit, I told my hairdresser and you had a story that we're gonna go through and end with that.
I, I think, uh, even though this has nothing to do with trauma dumping. Yeah. It's just a fucking great story, man, about you going to the barbershop in New York.
Yeah, I'll give it to you, but let me, can I close up on something with self-care? Sure, sure. Because I really feel so important, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Because I'm telling you to leave everything at the salon, but then I'm not telling you what to do when you go home. So, um, I was discussing with one of my friends, um, Jasmine today. She is a hairstylist. She [00:35:00] owns a mid-level salon at Jazzmine Up Salon. She is doing basically the role of manager, trainer, stylist, owner.
All under one, you know, roof. She has four or five stylists working for, and she's 28, 29 years old. She's young and up, you know, upcoming as an entrepreneur, businesswoman, et cetera. And you know, I asked her, how do you decompress after the day? And she had a totally good way of looking at it. She said, self care is important in the fact that even something small, going for a walk, reading for pleasure, watching a mindless movie.
She has a wonderful dog named Raja, playing with Raja. All those things. Let me not think about work. And you know, too often we think that we care for other people, self-care is not selfish, you know? Um, especially when hairdressers are moms or parents, you know, and they come home and they give everything at the salon, then they come back home and they've gotta give everything to the people at home, you know?
Yeah. And they feel bad going to get their own [00:36:00] hair done, or going to get their own nails done, or going for a massage or going for skincare or whatever, you know, or buying that extra outfit or, you know, eating that extra dessert. That's okay. Okay. Self-care is not selfish. You cannot pour from an empty cup.
So if you're not at your best, you can't give your clients your best. So do those things that are just for you and have things that are just for you.
Nice. Yep, that is very true. Perfect. That's a great way to kind of finish that off. Um, like barbershop
story.
Now we need to get, yeah. So, so one, one of the reasons we invited you on the show again, there's, to go through and tell us a story and you told me about this barbershop story and I was dying in Jack, I didn't tell you about this ahead of time because I like Jack's reaction.
He doesn't know.
Alright. I am a young. Baby bird executive in training many moons ago when I first get outta college and I'm working for a fairly substantial large [00:37:00] company and I have a meeting in New York City. So I come off the train and I decide, well, I'll get a shave and a haircut. So I go in looking fresh, my suit and everything.
Go upstairs to see this barbershop kind of close to Penn Station and it's a second floor barbershop, right? Kind of by Koreatown. Go upstairs and get in the chair with the barber. The barber's this nice, you know, older guy, and we start talking. He cuts my hair just fine and then he recliners me back for the shave as he's getting ready to start the shave.
He's got the razor here and we climb back in the chair. He takes his hand and he puts it on my crotch. I'm like, this isn't good. So then he shakes it. Now, unfortunately, I have my pants on and he says something, but I can't understand him because I don't speak Korean, um, what he said, or Vietnamese whatever.
He's, so he shakes it once, so I'm like, uh, I start moving his hand and he goes back again, and then shakes, you know, shakes it again. I get outta the chair, I grab him by the neck, put [00:38:00] him up against the wall. Okay. He was slightly built and he was older. You know, I put him up against the box. I don't know what he's doing.
All of a sudden, an older woman comes from the back with two young girls in bikinis and they pull me off of him, and apparently he was asking me if I wanted a happy ending after my shave or during my shave. I guess they bring these girls in. To do whatever they do. I, of course, was young and mortified, so I'm halfway down the street, like I'm down the stairs and halfway down the street like, what the hell just happened?
It didn't even click to me till I was halfway down the street that that's what it was about. Oh,
I God, wow. A shave in a happy ending. Yeah.
Yeah. So they, next I get a nice barbershop. It turned out they were, apparently they were running, they had a connected area. They were doing massages and Yeah, more than that in the back.
So maybe this way I was halfway down the [00:39:00] street. I'm like, I never went back. And that was the end of
it. So then how was your shave?
The shave was fine. Well, it was about half done. Okay,
okay. To go to another shop
where they just took care of the rest. Not that good.
Yeah, they're not known for their, yeah,
they just got
me like lathered
up and he just had his sting there, went like that.
I'm like, that's it.
Yeah, they wanted to get you lathered up. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's amazing.
I,
I thought that was
a great story. I mean, I've never worked in a salon like that before, but I know a few girls that probably would do that in the back room. I worked with a few, but. Alright, Tom, thank you so much for your help with the therapy.
We're welcome. Uh, it was really great. If you guys want to go through and reach out to Tom for any type of like therapy situations, um, therapy consulting that he could do if you're outside of the state of New Jersey. He's actually in New Jersey. I'm gonna go through and leave your, uh, [00:40:00] information in the show notes.
Thank you. Uh, please reach out to Tom. He has got a ton of information, especially for hairdressers and we really appreciate having you on the show. Yeah,
well, I appreciate you guys having me and I'd love to come back.
Absolutely Nat. Next time we'll talk about building the, building the business up, so we'll have you back on.
Sounds good. Alright, Tom.
Thank you. Have a great day guys. Thank you too.
It's back to shit. Ology, trauma dump style. So Jason, did you learn anything today? Oh, I definitely did. Great. Tell me what you learned. Well, I have an all new outlook on a work life balance. I'm gonna go through and internalize all the trauma and ball it up until I finally just fucking explode. Then I'll start attacking the lowest ability stylist outta the salon.
You know, the runt. When they start to cry, I'll shift all my energy into road rage and get behind the wheel of my car starting in on pedestrians and out-of-state drivers. Those fuckers deserve the most, and if [00:41:00] I still have any more Penta hostility, I'll drop by to get a nice shave. And when I say shave, I mean a happy ending.
Now I'll be ready to go home to my family. I don't think you learned anything today. This is your normal routine for years. You need to go back and listen to their show again. Pay attention this time. And with that, stay shitty and see you next time.
[00:42:00]